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00:00 Melissa Fleming

My guest this week has been a humanitarian all his life. His work is all about saving lives, but for him it goes even further than that. It's about bearing witness these days in Gaza.

 

00:13 Muhannad Hadi

They told me... They told me their agony 24/7. They told me what they go through from the morning until they drop asleep out of exhaustion. And I promised that I will tell the story.

 

00:46 Melissa Fleming

Muhannad Hadi is the UN Deputy Special Coordinator and the Humanitarian Coordinator for the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Listen to his incredible story. From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. This is Awake at Night. It's great to have you here in New York.

 

01:13 Muhannad Hadi

Thank you for having me.

 

01:14 Melissa Fleming

You came because you were addressing the Security Council the other day on the situation in Gaza and I know that you also spoke about just having been in Gaza. What did you tell the Security Council about what you saw there?

 

01:29 Muhannad Hadi

I just basically told people what I saw as a human being. I made a promise to the women I met. I had one hour, a bit more than one hour with a group of women who wanted to talk to me in Gaza. It helped I think that I speak Arabic. I'm Jordanian. I think they felt comfortable that they can speak to me, because what they shared with me was something very personal. And I'll tell you part of the stories in a minute. I've never been put in a situation like that. For a woman to expose herself and her ideas and what she's personally suffering from to a stranger, she has to feel comfortable to do that. I think all of us do, but especially for women in the Middle East. But just to go back to your point, when you said, 'What did you tell the people?' I promised the women that I will convey this. They told me, 'What are you going to do for us?' I said, 'I will tell your story.' And I did.

 

02:36 Melissa Fleming

What did you tell?

 

02:39 Muhannad Hadi

They told me... They told me their agony 24/7. They told me what they go through from the morning until they drop asleep out of exhaustion. Some women told me - and that's where I told you they felt safe - a woman told me that she went through her period for five times without taking a shower. For a woman to tell a stranger that, you know, she has reached all limits. But I think they felt safe to tell me that. Again, I felt they told me that because they wanted to [inaudible]. And I promised that I will tell the story. They told me that they had to shave their heads or cut their hair very, very short. No shampoo, no hygiene. And there was skin diseases and lice and everything else. They told... One woman told me that, 'I would like to go to the bathroom without everyone in the UNRWA [United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East] school shelter knows that I'm going to the bathroom. But they know because they see me walking with a bottle of water.'

 

What they actually ask for is privacy. They just wanted privacy. One explained to me how she had two daughters. When she wants to give them a shower when they can, their two small daughters, her sister comes, she talks, she goes to a corner. The sister holds a blanket. So she goes inside and then she gives him a bit of a shower if she can. But the sister remains holding the shower. Sorry, the curtain until the mother goes, washes the clothes, and waits for them to dry, because they don't have another set of clothes. So the sister could be there for an hour or two, just holding a blanket, trying to cover those naked little two girls, until their clothes come back. You know, a woman actually explained to me with difficult details how she changes the pampers for her mother. So they...

 

 

05:07 Melissa Fleming

You really got emotional when you were trying to tell that part of the story. What is it that really got to you about her struggling to help her elderly mother?

 

05:25 Muhannad Hadi

You know, reading about something is one thing. Watching it on TV is another. Feeling the emotions of the people is different. I actually was also impacted a lot when a woman told me how she lost her social status. You would think this is an easy story compared to the other stories. But it's not. She has three boys. She was hoping to see them go to school in for international schools, as we always do for our children and to get education. And now she... And then she explained to me how her kids are just running in the streets in Gaza, collecting wood for her - and that's a UN staff member - to cook dinner for them. And then, by the way, every woman I saw, she was like, 'Look!' She showed me... They showed me their hands. Their hands are from the wood, from the firewood... One woman told me, 'I know one thing for sure that I'm not a female, but I'm not sure what I am.'

 

06:55 Melissa Fleming

What did she mean?

 

06:56 Muhannad Hadi

I have no idea what she meant.

 

06:58 Melissa Fleming

That she lost her femininity.

 

07:01 Muhannad Hadi

Totally. Because, you know, some of them told me that, on that point actually, she said: 'I would love to have an opportunity to comb my hair. I can't do that.' Because they have to wear the hijab, not necessarily from a religious point of view, but from a protection point of view. A woman told me that she has been wearing this hijab for nine months. Nine months, day, and night. She can't take it off. So...

 

07:42 Melissa Fleming

Because normally in the comfort of their homes, they would take it off in the evening. They'd be among family.

 

07:48 Muhannad Hadi

Exactly. And there is no...

 

07:50 Melissa Fleming

Shower, wash their hair.

 

07:52 Muhannad Hadi

It's the issue of privacy that I told you. One woman, she was sitting more quiet than the rest of them. And I said, 'You haven't said much.' She said, 'I want one thing only.' I said, 'What?' And I thought, 'Probably, she's going to ask for food, medicine, evacuation.' She said, 'I just want to wake up in the morning and hear good morning from my husband.'

 

08:25 Melissa Fleming

Where was her husband?

 

08:26 Muhannad Hadi

Next to her. But then when I gave her that look. 'Why doesn't he say good morning?' She said, 'Because in the past nine months...' She explained it without me asking. 'There is nothing good in our lives. So you don't wake up to anything good. You just wake up to run to the street and to try to get food, water, shelter, anything. So there's nothing good in our life. So I just want to hear it.' Of course, they talked to me about the gender-based violence. Stories and stories.

 

09:06 Melissa Fleming

Because of the breakdown of public order.

 

09:09 Muhannad Hadi

Because of the breakdown of public order, because men are, you know, they're under pressure. It's just a different life for all of them. The Regional Director of WHO [World Health Organization], Dr. Hanan, joined the last part of the meeting with the women. And then I felt that after they told me all those stories, the personal stories, which I have to tell you I was a bit uncomfortable listening to, but I did listen to them. And then I said, 'You know what? I may want to leave you, Dr. Hanan.' First of all, she's a doctor. She's a woman. 'You may want to say things to a woman that you're unable to say to me.' I don't know what else they could have said. So I left Hanan with them for a few minutes. And then I came back to the room, and they said, 'Are you going to tell our story?' I said, 'Yes. I will tell.' And that's why I'm here.

 

10:22 Melissa Fleming

And you are telling their story.

 

 

10:25 Muhannad Hadi

It's more than that. When Hanan was with me and we were about to leave, this woman said, 'Wait! One final question.' I said, 'What?' She said, 'You have to answer it.' I said, 'I will, of course.' She said, 'Do you see me as an animal or a human being?' I said, 'What?' She said, 'How do you see me? Am I an animal or am I a person?' I said, 'Of course, you're a human being.' She says, 'Okay, I just wanted to hear that.'

 

11:11 Melissa Fleming

Can you describe this woman. Was she a young woman, an older woman?

 

11:19 Muhannad Hadi

She... Most of them were in their 20s, 30s. She could be you. She could be my sister. She could be my wife. She could be anyone.

 

11:37 Melissa Fleming

What does it say about this war?

 

11:41 Muhannad Hadi

As it says about any war. The first victim in the war is the truth. The second are the women and the children. This is [what] I have seen in my journey. The truth goes first. Then the women and the children pay a price. That's why they call it man-made crisis. And I always say you need a woman-made solution for a man-made crisis. And those women need to be given a voice, by the way.

 

12:20 Melissa Fleming

And what are they asking for, especially right now in the context of this war? Beyond, of course, they want privacy and dignity and showers and to say good morning.

 

12:31 Muhannad Hadi

They want an end to this. The problem is in other places they will tell you, 'We want to go home.' In this case, there is no longer a home. More than 80% of the houses and homes in Gaza are destroyed. There is no home to go to.

 

12:55 Melissa Fleming

80%.

 

12:57 Muhannad Hadi

Probably more.

 

13:00 Melissa Fleming

The loss is just...

 

13:04 Muhannad Hadi

Huge. You know when... The thing is when you speak to them and you're sitting there. I think I was lucky. It was so hot. I was so sweating. So I had tears come out of my eyes. But I don't think they could tell, was it sweat or tears? So that saved me. I'm in front of them. But, you know, I just want to tell you something that we all struggle with as field staff when we go. And my colleagues more than me, they're more on the field than me. But for me, you know, you go there, and you sit with them, and you hear the agony of it. And it's hot, and it's very tiring and exhausting. And then you jump into your armoured vehicle. And next to you there is a bottle of cold water. And then you actually speak to yourself: 'Can I honestly drink this?' You know women there, they don't drink water even if they have access to safe drinking water, because they can't afford to go to the bathroom. And that increased...

 

14:19 Melissa Fleming

Because they're so crowded, the bathrooms. And they have to wait.

 

14:21 Muhannad Hadi

Because they're so crowded, because they're scared from being harassed, exploited. The privileged ones that I visited, they had... You know, they don't have tents as people think. They're just small shelters. If somebody has sort of a tent, he finds a sort of a small corner in the tent, and they dig a hole and they cover it with a blanket. They keep that hole for the girls, the women to use as a bathroom where they sleep in the same room, and then they cover it with a blanket. Other women don't have that privilege if they don't have that tent. So they don't drink water because they can't afford to go to the bathroom. And imagine a pregnant woman not drinking water.

 

15:02 Melissa Fleming  

But also the health implications.

 

15:04 Muhannad Hadi

There are. They told me about the infections that they have as a result of that. And WHO is aware of that. But back to what I was trying to tell you. You know, before you reach that bottle of water, you think twice, 'You know, am I a hypocrite for drinking this water after listening all of this?' And that carries with you, by the way. Then you go to your guest house where we have the privilege of taking a shower. And then you take a shower and then you realize, you know, 'I'm taking a shower after just listening to those people.' When a woman tells you that I did not take a shower for six months, and I was in the field for about five, six hours, and the first thing I want to do is just to go and take my nice shower at the guest house in Gaza. Not even... I'm not talking about Jerusalem, in Gaza itself. Imagine what you go through with yourself. And then after that, of course, you have colleagues who are kind enough to offer you a very decent meal, despite the fact that you are in Gaza. And you eat the dinner, and then you just think, 'Am I really doing the right thing or not?' I don't know. We're humans.

 

16:20 Melissa Fleming

We're humans, and these are the things that we normally take for granted.

 

16:23 Muhannad Hadi

Yeah.

 

16:25 Melissa Fleming

It just probably made everything come into even greater graphic relief that you, that these women were deprived of almost¡­ of every single comfort, every single comfort that a human being...

 

16:48 Muhannad Hadi

They are being stripped out of their dignity. This is what it is. It's dignity.

 

 

16:58 Melissa Fleming

You know, I remember you started this job about three months ago, I believe.

 

17:03 Muhannad Hadi

Three months ago.

 

17:04 Melissa Fleming

You were called into this, and I am sitting in New York attending a lot of the meetings. The Secretary-General calls a meeting every week, the Executive Committee with the heads of UN agencies, humanitarian agencies, and key staff from around the system. And you were giving a briefing, I remember. And I was watching one of the colleagues who was taking notes. And as you were speaking, there were tears streaming down her face. And it really made me choke up too, because you were describing what you were seeing as you were driving through Gaza. I mean, can you just paint the picture of what Gaza looks like? I recall you were talking about just witnessing people on the streets with nothing, kids running around. Utter destruction. What do you see when you drive through?

 

18:10 Muhannad Hadi

One of the days when I woke up in Gaza and I was driving from the guest house to my first meeting, I looked around and people were just coming out of their shelters. I knew where I was going. I was going to a meeting. And I wondered, why did this person wake up this morning? You know, you woke up for what? [Inaudible] is you woke up for what? I know why I am up. I have a job. I'm going to do the job. I'm going from one place to the other. What would a person in that shelter wake up for? You have no food. You have no water. You have challenges. You're waking up to challenges that probably you won't find them anywhere in the world. I think if there is hell on earth, it's Gaza, by the way. And, you know, those are the things that you ask yourself.

 

19:18 Melissa Fleming

What does this hell look like?

 

19:20 Muhannad Hadi

You know, I've seen destruction in Aleppo, Homs, Syria, Sudan, Yemen. I've seen the result of bombing and attacks. But Khan Younis it's like it was ploughed. Sometimes I was driving. I have some photos I can show you. Sometimes when I was driving, you know, the sewage and the water and the pillars of the buildings were like five metres above us. It's like we were driving in an endless ditch. I think it was [because] of the bombing or whatever military operations were taking place there. When I drive in the streets in Gaza, you know, what do you see? You see just people on the streets, kids trying to find some water.

 

And the thing that puzzled me is you find kids or, you know, anybody there has something to sell. But something like what? Like a doorknob, a bulb, a microphone. Anything they can find, they put it there. Even kids. You know, they just sit there, kids, little girls, subject to exploitation and abuse with like a carton and on it some few things. What are they selling, for whom and who is buying it? I just could never figure it out. Although I drove... My close protection and security, I drove them crazy because every time I saw kids, I said, 'You have to stop.' I made them stop. And I went and I talked to the kids. And you just don't... 'What are you doing?' You know, 'We're selling this.' 'Who's buying?' Nobody's buying anything. But it's something to do.

 

21:06 Melissa Fleming

It gives a sense of purpose.

 

21:08 Muhannad Hadi

It gives [inaudible]... You know, you wake up, you put this. And you know who's going to buy a broken doorknob? Who is going to buy, you know, a chair? You know, why would you buy a chair?

 

21:18 Melissa Fleming

But also, I remember you mentioning at one of your briefings that there is no real currency. The only currency is cigarettes, which are...

 

21:28 Muhannad Hadi

Now the currency...

 

21:29 Melissa Fleming

$25 a pack.

 

21:30 Muhannad Hadi

Yes. The new currency is cigarettes now. Money is not there. Paper money is not there. They don't allow paper money to come in. And whatever they had it's just deteriorated totally. They have some coins, but they are worthless. It's becoming a barter economy in a way. Or people buy on credit or people get commodities for sexual favours. And that's the part that breaks the heart.

 

21:59 Melissa Fleming

Really breaks the heart because everything has just broken down.

 

 

22:04 Muhannad Hadi

You know I saw an old man. When I was trying to understand. And by the way, this is a point I always make. Don't say, don't tell people - especially people who go through crisis - don't tell them: 'I know what you're going through.' No, you don't know what they're going through. You may understand or start to understand what they could be going through. But don't put yourself in their position and situation claiming that you know what they're going through because this is dangerous. Because when you give yourself the right to claim that I understand what I'm going through, then I will start passing judgment. 'Let me tell you what's good for you.' No, you cannot do that.

 

You need to listen to people. If you want to do the job, you need to be humble. You do it with humility. You go and you listen. And we lose that sometimes. I'm not saying this, and I tell you that I walk the talk every time. Of course not. You know, I am human. I forget. But I try to remind myself that we need to listen to people. You know, you can't pass judgment on... That stage of, you know, 'I have experience and let me tell you what's good for you.' That is over.

 

23:27 Melissa Fleming

You don't know what you would...

 

23:28 Muhannad Hadi

You don't know what people are going through. So we actually have to listen to them. But as I was educating myself on what happened, there was this older guy I met. And he looked at me. He said, 'Let me sum it up for you.' Gasam. A few years... He's in his 60s, so a few years older than me. He said, 'You have to look at us as zombies. We are 2 million zombies. Family ties broken, community broken, society broken. Everything is broken. We are living individually as zombies. So when you want to assist us, keep that in mind.' That was the best description of the situation. And I am keeping that in mind. And I am reminding my colleagues, when you want to approach Gaza with a humanitarian response, listen to the people. At least this is how they see themselves.

 

24:40 Melissa Fleming

I mean, you're there to coordinate the humanitarian operations. How are you dealing with this? And what do you want most so that this suffering can be slightly alleviated and some of the dignity can be returned as long as this war continues?

 

24:58 Muhannad Hadi

We're in the business of saving lives. And when you are in the business of saving lives, you ask for what you want, and you do with what you get. It's a simple formula. I know what we want. We want everything for those people. But we can't have it because it's a man-made crisis. And in man-made crises, you know, there are man-made obstacles. And they put those obstacles on us. But we're focused on our mandate. We're focused on helping the people. We're focused on doing as much as we can to save lives. So whatever we can get, we do with it.

 

Fine. We're not definitely meeting the nutritional requirements for the people. We're unable to get them clean water as much as they want. But with whatever... You know, we prioritize and reprioritize. And some days we don't have fuel, so we reprioritize whatever has been reprioritized from the day before. And then you have to make this hard decision. We're down to 1000 litres of diesel. You give them to the hospital? You give them to the water purification? You give them to the generators or to the telecommunication towers? Can you take that decision, Melissa?

 

And let me make it a bit... Let me spice it up for you. If you decide to give them to hospitals. Which one? And if you give it to a hospital, which part of the hospital you want to run? Is it the ICU? Is it the emergency room? As if there are hospitals. Let me make one clear correction here. There are no hospitals in Gaza. I'm talking about field hospitals. And if you ask colleagues in WHO, they will tell you a field hospital is not a hospital. So I'm correcting myself here and I'm telling you it's a field hospital. So which field...? Which part of the field hospital you give the diesel for? We make those decisions every day.

 

27:15 Melissa Fleming

What is keeping you most awake at night when you think of this situation in Gaza and these kinds of decisions?

 

27:23 Muhannad Hadi

Everything. You reminded me the first time I went to Gaza, going there fresh and wanting to make a huge difference. And then I sat with the team, and I said: 'What is the...? Can you tell me about the priorities?' They looked at me. They said, 'What? Priorities? We don't have priorities.'  I said, 'What do you mean you don't have priorities?' They said, 'Everything is a priority. We don't have a priority list here. Look around you.' And I realized everything's a priority.

 

What keeps... You know, I wake up every morning. I have to wake up most of the nights when I'm there between 4:00 and 6:00 a.m., because part of my job is also, I'm the designated official for security. So I have to clear the high-level trips and missions, which are always risky, and we lost colleagues. So I wake up and I read what they sent me, and I have to do it mission by mission. Approved, approved, not approved. Then, you know, with the justification why it should and the mitigation measures and everything. And then I push "approved." And I know that when I push "approved", it could be good, but it could be a colleague in a body bag. And it happened.

 

28:55 Melissa Fleming

It happened recently. There was a convoy that was hit by Israeli fire.

 

29:04 Muhannad Hadi

Yes. And we had a colleague from DSS.

 

29:08 Melissa Fleming

From our security services.

 

29:10 Muhannad Hadi

Yes, and another one injured.

 

29:15 Melissa Fleming

How did that make you feel?

 

29:20 Muhannad Hadi

Not sure.

 

29:23 Melissa Fleming

It hurt.

 

29:26 Muhannad Hadi

Probably. You know what I... I tell colleagues when we're talking about security enhancement and things like that, I always tell people: 'Would you like to make a call on behalf of United Nations?' Let me start. I tell colleagues: 'Would you like to make a call to a wife and tell her: "Oh, by the way, so sorry we lost your husband last night?'''

 

30:12 Melissa Fleming

You had to do that?

 

30:15 Muhannad Hadi

Luckily, I didn't. New York made it on my behalf. I've done that before. I've done that when I was in WFP [World Food Programme]. I called a mother, and I told her, 'Sorry I lost your son last night.'

 

 

30:33 Melissa Fleming

You yourself are a father and have a wife and have children. They must really worry about you.

 

30:41 Muhannad Hadi

They do.

 

30:44 Melissa Fleming

How do you try to reassure them?

 

30:49 Muhannad Hadi

That's a good question. I get a lot of support from my wife and three boys. They trust me. I think they trust my judgment. I've never lied to them. I've always been honest with them. But they're proud. I've actually texted them. I told them that I was coming to see you. I said, 'I won't have my mobile for the next 1.5 hours.' They said, 'Why?' I told them why. And then they text me. They said, 'Tell her you're a good father.'

 

31:32 Melissa Fleming

Oh, that's really nice. I mean, I'm sure because your whole career has been focused on saving the lives of other people. How did you manage to be a father and the father you'd like to be? During this time you've been in so many places around the world, serving in really difficult duty stations.

 

32:03 Muhannad Hadi

I really tried. You know, in this job if you don't have a spouse or partner who supports you, if you don't have a family who supports you, it's difficult. And I am lucky I had one. I have a good wife who supported me throughout this long journey. And I have three boys, beautiful boys. There was a time when they called me "weekend dad¡± because I would only see them on the weekend. But I think they understood. And they've been very, very supportive. And that helps a lot. You know, it helps that, you know, you have somebody who supports you, somebody who trusts you, somebody who's proud of you. That makes a difference.

 

32:58 Melissa Fleming

I'm sure. I believe you could even all live together when you were based in Yemen at one point.

 

33:03 Muhannad Hadi

In Yemen, we lived together.

 

33:04 Melissa Fleming

It's hard to imagine because in Yemen now, you...

 

33:07 Muhannad Hadi

Although we went through...

 

33:08 Melissa Fleming  

Can't live there as a family.

 

33:09 Muhannad Hadi

No. We went through a lot of experiences in Yemen. They bombed our house twice when we were living there.

 

33:14 Melissa Fleming

Oh.

 

33:17 Muhannad Hadi

So that was. You know, that was an experience there twice. In Indonesia, we lived together but not for a short time, for nine months. And then they moved me to Iraq again. [In] Sudan we spent three years, which were also nice. So, you know, I tried by the way - and I think my wife knows that very well - I tried as much as I can to balance things. I had to take decisions sometimes where, you know, I had to push back. When the agency says, 'No, you need to do [inaudible] emergency.' I said, 'Well, you know, there are two types of contracts I have in my life, one with the United Nations and I have a contract with my wife.' I wanted to work on the contract with my wife. I wanted to make sure that that contract has no termination date. The UN will have a clause says, 'You know, this contract ends by this date with no right no right of renewal.' I never wanted to... I wanted to make sure that my contract with my wife...

 

34:23 Melissa Fleming

That she doesn't have a reason to terminate.

 

34:24 Muhannad Hadi

To terminate. It doesn't have an expiry date, but likewise with my children also, who are very supportive.

 

34:32 Melissa Fleming

Have any of them followed in your footsteps?

 

34:34 Muhannad Hadi

They're all, they went to this model United Nations. The youngest one, he's just graduating now from school. He's off to university. He made it to deputy secretary general. You know, we're a UN house. We watch the news. They wear UN t-shirts. They have UN backpacks. It's United Nations everywhere. It's... We're a UN family. You know, they know the SDGs. There's a flag in our home.

 

35:13 Melissa Fleming

You've indoctrinated them.

 

35:15 Muhannad Hadi

Yes.

 

 

35:16 Melissa Fleming

Muhannad, you have been in the business of saving lives for much of your career.

 

35:22 Muhannad Hadi

This is not a job only for me. This is not just a job. This is the only thing I've done in my life. By the way, I don't have any other experience. Never worked for a bank. Never worked for a government. Never worked for the private sector. Never worked for anything. I've only worked for the United Nations. That is all. With one year with ICRC [International Committee of the Red Cross] seconded to the United Nations, by the way.

 

35:45 Melissa Fleming

But I think you briefly told me about your origin story, and I would love to ask you about that. You're Jordanian, you're a young student, and something was happening that prompted you to go volunteer. What was going on? This was in 1990.

 

36:00 Muhannad Hadi

1990. I finished school. I finished university in 1988. And back then we had to do military service. So I'd done that for two years. And then I wanted to go back to school and study international law. And then Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on 2nd of August 1990. So I was just watching the news back then and then I saw that there were so many people stranded between the Jordan and Iraq border, tens, and tens of thousands of people in tents in a very difficult situation.

 

So I woke up in the morning, prepared a backpack, and I took a sleeping bag. And my mom said, 'Where are you going?' I said, 'I'm going to volunteer.' 'Volunteer where and what?' I said, 'Mom, look on TV. I'm just going to go there and help them.' She actually didn't stop me. So I took that trip in August, and I went by a bus. First, I went to... I took a couple of taxis and whatever busses to get there. I remember the last leg of that trip. I think it was between a place called Safawi and Ruwayshid, something like that, in the east, far east border of Jordan, in the desert. Next to me there was a guy and a goat sitting next to me in the bus. And the goat was next to me. Then the guy. So he had his goat with him.

 

37:25 Melissa Fleming

So you were asking yourself what you were doing.

 

37:26 Muhannad Hadi

What am I doing there? Anyway, I reached and then they allowed me to go inside the desert for 35 kilometres, and I went there. And, at that time, whomever was there volunteering, they decided to leave. So they left me there on my own upon arrival. And then as they were leaving, there was one doctor who told me, 'Listen, I'm also leaving. I can't take it anymore. But here are three boxes. If somebody comes who has fever and flu, you give him medicine from this. If he has diarrhea, you give him this. And if they have whatever.'  I forgot, one was... Yeah, one was for the fever. I think it was paracetamol, and one for stomach and one for the flu. I said, 'And?' He said, 'That's it.' They left. So then the people wanted to go and attack the boxes and I said, 'No, no, let me do the distribution for you.' So I actually worked as a doctor until I met colleagues from ICRC. And I have to say I met Philippe Lazzarini.

 

38:27 Melissa Fleming

Philippe Lazzarini, who is now the Commissioner-General of UNRWA. So he was then working for the ICRC.

 

38:34 Muhannad Hadi

He came, yes, as ICRC. And then I think he felt sorry for me. I met him after a week. You know, I had to sleep on top of a fridge because there were scorpions everywhere attacking people at night. So I would just put myself on top of a fridge and just sleep there, whatever I could sleep during the night, and then continue doing. And then Phillip felt sorry for me when he met me in the desert after that. And he said, 'Why don't you come with us and, you know, go to a hotel.' And, they had a hotel, you know. They were ICRC. So they took me to a hotel. And their hotel, they were very kind to me, I have to say. I took a shower. I'll never forget that shower and a very decent meal compared to what I was eating there. And then they offered me a job. I started working for them and working with the UN and them at the same time. And then I worked for the World Food Programme. And then here I am.

 

39:31 Melissa Fleming

So you never... This was an unintentional start into an international humanitarian career. Destiny.

 

39:40 Muhannad Hadi

And you know, I... And every time I got frustrated and I would tell my wife, 'You know what, I'm leaving the UN.' And my wife would tell me, 'Muhannad, you have 25 or whatever, you know, 20-25 years of experience in the United Nations. No one will take you. Continue doing what you're doing. No one is interested in someone like you. Just stay the course.' And I did stay the course.

 

40:06 Melissa Fleming

You stayed the course, and I believe though you were thinking about retiring when you were called up to this assignment.

 

40:12 Muhannad Hadi

Yes, I was thinking of retiring. I talked to my wife. We thought that we could spend some time, more time with each other. And I was supposed to go on retirement in this coming December. They offered me a post. I said, 'No.' And then they offered me this post. I spoke to my wife and kids. And my wife is a very reasonable, smart woman. I think she's the one who... We don't have... I only have boys. My wife says she has four boys. She considers me one of the boys. And she really manages all of us very well. So, and usually, the way she does that is she lets us the boys talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And then she comes with a decision at the end. And the boys started, 'Yeah, Dad. No. Yes. No.' You know, everybody had... Each one of the boys had an opinion, but all were positive opinions. And then she said, 'Okay, now let me ask you a question to all of us. Anyone given an opportunity on the planet Earth to go and help the people of Gaza, would she or he accept or refuse?' And the boys said, 'Of course, anyone will accept.' She says, 'So we have our answer.' So that's what basically happened.

 

41:33 Melissa Fleming

I wanted to ask you about that because of the, you know, the proximity in growing up in Jordan. I mean, it must... Having all of this conflict in your neighbourhood. Does that affect you particularly?

 

41:51 Muhannad Hadi

I thought it would but actually it doesn't. Because I realize that this is how I behaved, reacted, committed to any operation I worked with - Yemen, Syria, Sudan. When I was in Indonesia. All the emergencies I've done - Myanmar, Pakistan. It's all the same. I think what drives me is the mandate, to tell you the truth. I'm a big fan of the mandate, by the way. I honestly believe in the mandate.

 

42:23 Melissa Fleming

The mandate of the United Nations?

 

42:26 Muhannad Hadi

Of the United Nations. I have two things in my life. It's my family and the United Nations. It's as simple as that. I'm a very simple person. It's family and the UN. My goals are clear. My life is clear. My path is clear. And that's about it.

 

42:41 Melissa Fleming

Muhannad, thank you so much for sharing your story with me.

 

42:44 Muhannad Hadi

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

 

42:48 Melissa Fleming

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

 

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people to find the show.

 

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell, to Adam Paylor, Josie Le Blond, and my colleagues at the UN: Katerina Kitidi, Roberta Politi, Geneva Damayanti, Tulin Battikhi, Bissera Kostova, Anzhelika Devis, and Carlos Macias. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier. Additional music was by Pascal Wyse.