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Melissa Fleming 00:00

Going home. It sounds so simple and yet it's something that is easy to take for granted. But for so many people displaced by war or disaster, it's an impossibility. I was very moved by my guest this week. Mohamed Yahya is a refugee from Somalia and he and his family can't go home. But he has just had the incredible privilege of helping whole communities return home to northern Nigeria, years after they had to flee from the militant group Boko Haram.

 

Mohamed Yahya 00:35

It was very touching. It was the most emotional part of my work. I have been displaced from my own home as a young person at the age of three, four, when we left home in Somalia. And a little bit of me was, I must say, envious of them, that they're able to go back home. I always imagine how I'll feel when I go back home without fear.

 

Melissa Fleming 01:05

From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. This is Awake at Night. Mohamed, you like to go by the name of Mo.

 

Mohamed Yahya 01:22

Yes.

 

Melissa Fleming 01:22

Okay. So welcome, Mo.

 

Mohamed Yahya 01:24

Thank you.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 01:25

And, you know, as we record this, you're just about to take up your new position as the UN Resident Coordinator for Pakistan. And you have just left Nigeria, where you were Resident Representative of the United Nations Development Programme. One of the big projects you worked on in Nigeria was helping communities return to their towns years after they were brutally displaced because of the conflict with the militant group Boko Haram. You have written, Mo, very movingly about watching a community come home in the northern province of Borno. What was that like? What was the welcoming ceremony and what did you witness?

 

Mohamed Yahya 02:07

Thank you very much for having me. It was a community that had been displaced over a decade. So for us seeing families who haven't been at home, who have been in IDP camps, who have lived essentially very difficult lives. These are communities... I'll give you an example of a young lady called Amina. She went back now at 25 years old, and she had left ten years ago her own home. So she has a deep relationship with home, but she doesn't remember a lot about home. And her entire life for a period of decade was confined in an IDP camp.

 

Melissa Fleming 02:51

Can you just tell... What were the circumstances for why she had to leave? What was Boko Haram doing that drove so many people from their homes?

 

Mohamed Yahya 02:59

Boko Haram is an insurgency that started in the early 2000s and became prominent globally in terms of their brutal attack and displacement of communities. She and her family came from a place called Ngarannam, which is about one kilometre outside Mafa town. And those who like geography, it's about 50km outside the capital Maiduguri. The town was completely burned down. Boko Haram came in, burned down the village, killed, raped, maimed as they always do. And she was one of the people who were displaced.

As part of that displacement, the international community and humanitarian organizations set up internally displaced camps. Those camps are important in saving people's lives. But the conditions in the camps are overcrowded, poor hygiene and many problems people face in IDP camps, as we know, globally.

So we wanted to work with the government and the communities to look at whether we can return people after a decade of displacement. But the challenges of returnees... First, do they want to return? Do they remember home? Do they...? Is there security to return? What are the guarantees that Boko Haram will not come back? So after all those issues were addressed, the government gave us the go-ahead to rebuild those communities.

So we wanted to rebuild the town that was razed but rebuild it better. And how do we do that? We wanted to make sure it was culturally sensitive. They were involved in the process of rebuilding and reimagining their own communities. And it was one of the most unbelievable programmes that I've been involved in. And more importantly, it actually appeared in Architectural Digest. It was spreading it - the story of rebuilding Ngarannam. And partly it's because we had hired a very famous Nigerian architect to work with the community, to look at their cultural heritage, to discuss with them what they want, and designed the place in a way that Architectural Digest thought it was worth having it in their publication last year.

 

Melissa Fleming 05:11

So they had.... Their whole town had been razed and they could reimagine something better. What did it look like?

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 05:19

So, the community... There is a tribe in northern Nigeria called the Kanuri, one of the biggest tribes in Borno State. They wanted to make sure the housing was built in a way... In their culture, when you walk into the house, you can't... When you open the door, you don't see straight into the house. It's like there's a small waiting area. And once you go through the waiting area, you have an opening and then you get into the house. But they wanted us to help them build it in a way that was environmentally friendly. That the heat... It's a very hot place there. They wanted to make sure that the houses were cool and female friendly, and they were involved in that process of design. And we got the architect to help us.

 

Melissa Fleming 06:03

What does female friendly look like?

 

Mohamed Yahya 06:05

So it's about safety for them when they get into the house, to make sure that essentially if somebody comes into the first part of the house, people are still protecting themselves in the second part of the house. So it's... I don't know how to describe it vividly better than that, but essentially well lit. And many of these houses, many of these communities we've seen, a lot of them are women-led because the men have either died during the conflict or fathers have left. So there's a lot of women-led households in those communities. So we wanted them to help design on how the houses will look. It's one of the most incredible community-involved design I have been involved in. And I think many people would say that.

 

Melissa Fleming 06:57

I'm just... Because of course I worked for the UN Refugee Agency for years and I know the situation for many refugees stuck or IDPs and, you know, not many of them get a chance to reimagine. They'd love to go back home. How did you get the funding for this? I'm sure it wasn't cheap.

 

Mohamed Yahya 07:18

No, it wasn't. But it's much cheaper than running IDP camps for over a decade, essentially. This is the argument we've made in the sense that these communities, many of them want to go back home. When the Secretary-General came to Borno State and Maiduguri, he spoke to the IDPs. And when you asked them, 'What do you want? What do you want your government and what do you want the UN to support you?' And many, many of them wanted to go back home. So there's a sense that home... They felt incomplete, even in safety, without the connection to home. So we got a lot of funding because Germany is one of the biggest funders on stabilization for UNDP. And the idea of stabilization really is to get the government to lead and have the ownership in finding solutions to the issues of displacement. Ngarannam... 

 

Melissa Fleming 08:12

How many people were able to return home as a result of this in these reimagined communities?

 

Mohamed Yahya 08:16

So one of that specific town, about 7000 people returned in one town, a small town. We've done about nine other locations. We build schools. We build clinics. We build security features so that the police and police barracks and police stations and the police return. All those areas if you look... Our figures, 35,000 people returned within the nine zones that we were able to do this. But we think indirectly, more than 50,000 people returned because not everybody necessarily gets a house or gets shelter to go back home. Many people, when they see the police are back, and when they see the army is there, and when they see streetlights and they feel there's a sense of security, they go back by themselves.

 

Melissa Fleming 09:03

The longing for home is always there. And we're going to talk about your story as well. But what does home mean for the IDPs, the internally displaced people, the refugees that you have met?

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 09:14

For those who we spoke to, for them home is essentially restarting their lives. They've always felt displacement for them was a sense of incompleteness. And I'll tell you later, I said, we'll discuss my own story of displacement. There is something very incomplete when you do not have that... The option of home is removed in your life, familiarity, belonging. And many people have a strong relationship with the land and the culture around home. So many of them wanted to go back home. And there are many stories of people who felt that. And this also happens because there was no opportunity for them but IDP camps. For them options were, 'Do I want to stay in IDP camp forever, or do I want to restart my life?' And for the government also, they wanted people who voluntarily wanted to go back to go back. So we facilitated that process.

 

Melissa Fleming 10:16

You seem quite proud of this project.

 

Mohamed Yahya 10:20

Absolutely. We were very proud because, I think it's the UN at its best when we align with priority of government and more importantly, the needs of the communities we were there to support. So in that sense, I said that sometimes for those of us who work in development it's not easy to see results immediately because development can take time. It's government-led, many parts of it involves too much planning and development plans and looking for financing. But seeing development action have an immediate direct impact on people's lives. Somebody who lived in an IDP camp, who had their hopes, their aspirations deferred because they were prioritizing their own security is suddenly back home in dignity, self-reliant and thinking, 'Now, I want to reimagine again what life means for me.' So in that sense, yes, I'm very proud.

 

Melissa Fleming 11:22

You mentioned Mariam. And were you able to accompany her or to see her back in her new home? And if so, what was that like?

 

Mohamed Yahya 11:31

So Amina is her name, and she wanted... Yes, we followed her. We followed her and we made a 29-minute documentary story that right now is going around the film festival circuits in the world and follows the story of four families. One of them is this young lady who is going back home for the first time since she was a teenager. Another one is a story of a woman who lost her husband and is going back as a single mother with four kids. Another one is a young man who went as far as Lagos but wanted to go back home. And now he's at home with his young wife and their young child. So we follow the stories of these four families. And then we went back months after they went back home and see how they're coping.

The most interesting thing of their stories, though, is this. You know, when you are in an IDP camp for decade or sometimes 6 or 7 years, you get deskilled in one area of your ability to restart your livelihood. So if you are a farmer, you're not necessarily skilled as you used to be because you were relying on humanitarian aid to survive. But now you have to go back and farm again. Or if you are a cattle keeper, if you're a businessperson. So we had to accompany them on those... So I don't want to give up, but I don't want to give the impression that it was a smooth transition to dependency. It wasn't. It's still a challenge. But their biggest pride when you talk to them and when you see them is a sense that, 'I'm back home. I have my own destiny in my own hand, and I'm independent.' And those things are very powerful.

 

Melissa Fleming 13:18

How did it make you feel witnessing the return of these Nigerians to their own homes in their own communities?

 

Mohamed Yahya 13:25

It was very touching, it was most emotional part of my work that I have ever been involved, seeing them. But also, as we'll come to it later, I have been displaced from my own home as a young person at the age of three, four, when we left home in Somalia. And a little bit of me was, I must say, envious of them, that they're able to go back home. In that sense, I always imagine how I'll feel when I go back home without fear of security or relationships that may have been fractured because you're distant from people. So in that sense, indirectly I was essentially living my own entitled joy by looking at how they felt, and what future now awaits them.

 

Melissa Fleming 14:23

And maybe you one day. But maybe let's go back there when you were three years old, and you were living in Somalia with your family, and you had to flee. What happened? What were the circumstances there and what was that journey like?

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 14:39

So my parents were in the Somali government. Both of them were in the... At least my father was working for the government. And we left at early 80s. He left earlier. We followed him later. And the main reason was a sense of fear and political prosecution because he didn't want to... He was in the army, so he didn't want to be in the army anymore. Somalia had lost a war in 1978, a war with Ethiopia. And there was a sense that the country wasn't going the way it's supposed to go. And he wanted to leave, but the options were not there. So he had to sneak out and go to Kenya. And then we had to follow him a couple of years later. So we moved to Kenya and moved to the Kenyan coast. For those who are familiar with... I happen [inaudible] is the nicest part of Kenya, the Kenyan coast. So we moved there, and we've been living there since... My mother still lives there, so that is home for us now. But there's always a sense of something missing because you... Or you're deprived going back to where you were born.

 

Melissa Fleming 15:53

You have not been able to go back since.

 

Mohamed Yahya 15:56

I went back as a UN official. But you come in and out, you are locked into the [inaudible]. But I... No, I haven't been able to walk around or get a sense this is where I was born. Or get to sense... Interact with people. You just can't do that. Unfortunately, with the insecurity still that plagues the country.

 

Melissa Fleming 16:17

You settled in was it Mombasa?

 

Mohamed Yahya 16:19 

Just about two hours north of Mombasa town called Malindi. That's where we settled.

 

Melissa Fleming 16:25

And how was the reception from the local community? How were you and your family received? And what was it...? I mean, you were only three, so probably you were okay. But was it easy to integrate?

 

Mohamed Yahya 16:42

Absolutely. I mean, the beauty about the Kenyan coast is there is a unifying culture. Something unifying about the Swahili culture. Swahili is not a tribe. It's a language. And the minute you learn the language, the minute you are part of that culture, it's a very accepting society. But to be fair, also, those days, there were no huge numbers of Somali refugees. It will like early 80s. So people were much... Had a larger appetite to accept people coming in. That was very different when the Somali refugees came in their millions. I was in Malindi when the boats were coming from Somalia during the early 90s. I remember the people having a sense of fear or a sense that there were too many people coming and they're taking over our spaces. So there was a bit of a backlash, but that I found it to be natural when people don't know who's coming and they have a sense that their social fabric may be affected. But I think Kenya has been overall a very generous country for refugees and people who are displaced from all over the region.

 

Melissa Fleming 17:59

No, incredibly generous when you look at the numbers in the years and years because the situation in Somalia has been so insecure. You haven't even been able to go back really, except for with your UN passport and under massive security as we travel there. So, what about your parents? I mean, how do they feel about...? Do they feel a longing for Somalia? Do they...?

 

Mohamed Yahya 18:27

Yeah. My father passed away years later, so he's never had the opportunity to go back really. He passed in 1998. So for him, he's always wanted... I think there's always that missing piece. There are many people who have left home voluntarily who may have moved to another country, but they always have an option to fly back, to go walk around where you... Essentially to remember your childhood. So he was deprived of all that. You know, he never ended up going back. So that, yeah. That is one thing that I've always... You know, the most interesting about home, though, and the feeling about home is, there's this romantic thing you have about this, you know, beautiful place called home that if you go back, you will essentially get what you are missing. But my... There is a lot of fear in me. Maybe if I ever go back home, it won't be as exciting as I had imagined in my romantic self. So it's very interesting, interesting feelings. But I just think not having the option is the most difficult part.

 

Melissa Fleming 19:40

Yeah, I'm sure I know so many refugees feel that and just would love to have that option and they're stuck. So you were able to get Kenyan citizenship?

 

Mohamed Yahya 19:50

Actually... No, because I haven't applied, to be fair. I'm entitled to Kenyan citizenship, but I've kept... I'm still a Somali citizen. And then later I lived in the UK. I left. So I call myself a double refugee. So I then I left to the UK as a migrant in my teenage years as at 16, 17. Then I lived there until I was... Well, until I finished university. So I have a British passport as well.

 

 

Melissa Fleming 20:22

So you went to the UK to study?

 

Mohamed Yahya 20:24

No, I went as an irregular migrant in the UK. So, the story was when a lot of Somalis started coming to Kenya, it became very difficult for Somalis and there was a fear... My mother who felt like, you know, we need to invest in somebody. And you know how I wrote a report called "Scaling Fences" on this story of African migrants. And families come together they resource, mobilize within the family and then they invest in you to go away, and to have an opportunity in places such as the UK or the US and others. And you become an investment. And then, in my case, that investment had paid because I was given an opportunity to study and live in the UK.

 

Melissa Fleming 21:15

But I mean, you were 16 years old. That must have been... What was that like? Did they sit you down at the dinner table one evening and say, 'Son, you are going to the UK?'

 

Mohamed Yahya 21:25

No. I can tell you, Melissa, I remember coming back from school with my backpack and being told that, 'You're leaving next day.' That's how much... There was not a lot of consultation, I must say.

 

Melissa Fleming 21:38

And how did you get there?

 

Mohamed Yahya 21:40

Well, they had, you know, they had human smugglers those days. So, they were paying people and then the people will take you and they'll get you a pass when you end up landing in London. And once you land in London, they tell you where to go and what to say, and then the guy disappears. So that's essentially what happened. And for me it was a shock because I had never been to Nairobi forget about London. So it was my first trip to a city outside Malindi apart from Mombasa. It was smaller. So it was a very big eye-opener.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:16

So you took a plane?

 

Mohamed Yahya 22:17

Yes, we took a plane. Those days it was easier. It was 1993, '94.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:22

I don't think you could do that now.

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 22:23

No. Now, this is why the "Scaling Fences" report, which was produced for UNDP told the story of why irregular migrants are migrating and what are the opportunities that they're seeking and how can the irregular migrant be formalized. In the older days, people could just go. And now, planes are not an option. Visas are impossible to get. So people, find a way, you know, to go to those places and...

 

Melissa Fleming 23:01

They risk their lives and horrific journeys through deserts on boats that many of them sink. So, in your case, I guess you feel lucky.

 

Mohamed Yahya 23:15

Very lucky that we didn't have to do that. But I know many people who come from the same background as mine who have done that journey. I wrote a Guardian article on a young man called Bashi. He's now in Austria. He went through the journey, crossed the... He went through Iran, actually. He left Kenya. He went to Iran, crossed to Turkey. From Turkey to Greece up to... He was stopped on the German border with Austria. And he stayed there now and he's still there. But his ambition was... He's a young man. He was very vibrant. I know him quite well. I wrote his story. But his is a story of saying that, 'I will not let my circumstances define me or limit my ambition.' His ambition was to get a world class education. And he felt that as... He also actually grew up in Dadaab, in the refugee camp in Kenya. He felt that his ambition there was never going to be met. So he'd rather take the risk. For him... 

 

Melissa Fleming 24:29

Was he able to get asylum in Austria?

 

Mohamed Yahya 24:31

Yes. He's there. He's got the asylum. But he's lucky. You're right. There are many were dead. Many who drowned, there are many who... Yeah. But in the report that we produced, I had warned policymakers. Then I went around to many of the European countries and the message was very clear - if the Sahara and the Mediterranean cannot stop them, no other barriers will stop them. So it's better that we find a formalization, a form of regular migration system, so that we reduce the unnecessary deaths. But more importantly, these are people who are very ambitious, and it's important that you engage with the governments of where they're coming from so you have a form of legal migration. Because now there's no other way to migrate if you want to go to richer countries and get opportunities.

 

Melissa Fleming 25:25

And it's not only opportunities, it¡¯s contributions.

 

Mohamed Yahya 25:30

Absolutely, absolutely.

 

Melissa Fleming 25:31

And many of these countries are desperate for... I'm not only speaking of migrant labor, but the kind of expertise that many ambitious young people bring. Once they get educated, they can contribute enormously to the economies and...

 

Mohamed Yahya 25:50

Absolutely.

 

Melissa Fleming 25:52

Enrich the societies with different cultures. But it's...  Why is it such a hot button issue? As somebody who managed to get to the UK yourself, managed to get educated there, why?

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 26:08

I think there are many reasons. One, I think it is a self-reinforcing problem. Because there is no legal pathway, people come in irregularly and because they come in irregularly, it touches on the fear of the unknown. So I always told policymakers that the best way to reduce anti-migration, anti-migrant feeling in your societies is to regularize it, to own the process.

Right now, I'll give you an example. I went to Copenhagen. And if you go to Copenhagen, there's one park. And I walked in the park, and I saw a lot of African migrants sleeping roughly. And I spoke to an ordinary Danish person. They were really upset that they could not go to their park, which is understandable. I mean, they feel that the parks were occupied. But they're not aware that there is no legal migration. There's no process for these people to not... Where will they go? Because there's no receiving system. So it's a self-reinforcing... I think people are becoming more anti-migrant because there's no pathway for legal migration, and because there's no pathway for legal migration more and more people vote extreme parties into power thinking that is the way to stop it. They overpromise. They won't be able to stop it because people will come until you have legal pathways. And this is the... It takes a level of courage to do this and that hasn't happened.

 

Melissa Fleming 27:45

Well, I think you're an example of why they should do it. You studied where in the UK?

 

Mohamed Yahya 27:52

I went to SOAS, School of Oriental and African Studies. I studied there, and I did both of my undergrad and master's there. And for me, as I said, when I remember the discussion with my mother when she was sending me, her message was one thing - education. 'Go there. Don't be distracted by anything else. You have an opportunity to be educated.' And that is the opportunity that I took.

 

Melissa Fleming 28:21

You arrived at 16, all alone.

 

Mohamed Yahya 28:23

Yeah.

 

Melissa Fleming 28:24

Where did you go?

 

Mohamed Yahya 28:25

They put you in a children's home and foster parents. So I had few foster parents. A wonderful Eritrean family who I lived with until I was 18. The local council is well set up for unaccompanied refugees. But just to say, all that would not have happened if there was no refugee convention. So people sometimes don't understand the importance of this international value system that we have signed up to. And every time I hear the negative perspective of people saying, 'These conventions should not work. Or what is the UN convention doing for me?' I tell them, 'It has done so much for me. Without that I would not have been accepted in the UK.'

 

Melissa Fleming 29:14

And then is this what motivated you? Your background as a refugee, as a migrant, did that have any...? Or factor into your motivation for working for the UN?

 

Mohamed Yahya 29:28

Absolutely. First, I didn't... When I finished university, I wanted to go to the city like every young man, young woman, go make money in the finance sector. And so I joined a company there, but I only lasted one month. I knew immediately it wasn't for me. So I quit then I... So I was all over the place for the first few months after finishing university. Then I joined an NGO, volunteered for the NGO but I negotiated for them to pay my rent because I thought, 'I can't volunteer and be not paid.' So they were paying my rent, and they gave us some stipend. So from there is when I realized this is what I want to do and work in the development sector. I went to S?o Tom¨¦ and Pr¨ªncipe for the first... The NGO sent me there to work. That's when I realized the importance and the power of the UN on the ground. And that's what inspired me then to want to join.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:34

Where did you go?

 

Mohamed Yahya 30:35

S?o Tom¨¦ and Pr¨ªncipe, small little island off West Africa, a population 150,000. Most wonderful people, Portuguese speaking. This is where I first went to work for International Alert. I opened the office there. I was in my early 20s.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:51

And so how did you get into the UN?

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 30:54

So I got in the UN same place I met my wife. So, after S?o Tom¨¦, I went to Liberia for the same NGO and then we had a partnership with the NGO I was working for called International Alert with UNDP. So I was sitting inside UNDP offices and working but hired by the NGO. And then I got a job with them. And that's the same place I met my wife. She was also working for UNDP in Liberia. So Liberia is an important part of our story, our family story.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:32

And you met her very young too.

 

Mohamed Yahya 31:33

Yes. We met and she was working in a place called Harper, there's a border between Liberia and Ivory Coast. And so every time she used to come to Monrovia on the way to R&R, this is where we met. And yeah.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:49

Where is she from?

 

Mohamed Yahya 31:50

She's Swedish. She's from southern Sweden, a place called Malm?. So she's... Yeah, I met her there.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:58

I believe there are a lot of Somalis in Sweden.

 

Mohamed Yahya 32:00

A lot, yes. I only found out when I met my wife and part of the marriage agreement is I have to go to Christmas there, and it's very cold, as you can imagine. And the summer holidays is when I come to find there's a lot of Somalis in Sweden. Yeah. Sweden has been a very generous country for refugees.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:21

So what was that cold like when you first went to Sweden for Christmas?

 

Mohamed Yahya 32:26

Oh, up to today, I can tell you every time I go there for Christmas, if I stay there for a week, I hardly leave the house. I resist because it's just... I keep asking my Swedish in-laws how they find that, but they're used to it.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:43

They're used to it.

 

Mohamed Yahya 32:44

They're used to it.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:44

And so no amount of down jackets and hats...

 

Mohamed Yahya 32:49

The Swedes always say it's not about the weather, it¡¯s how you are.... Whatever you're wearing, the clothes you wear. And I really don't believe in that. Whatever layers of clothes I put on, I still feel the cold, so...

 

Melissa Fleming 33:05

Was your wife able to keep, you know, working also for the UN and be based in places that you were based? Because I know it's often difficult to maintain a .... In these international lifestyles it's tough.

 

Mohamed Yahya 33:19

Yeah. So she's been very lucky because she works for UNHCR. She worked for UNHCR in Nigeria. Now we're going to Pakistan. She wants to take a few months break and then see what she wants to do.

 

Melissa Fleming 33:34

Excellent. And do you have children?

 

Mohamed Yahya 33:36

Yes. We have a seven-year-old girl. We have one child. Yes.

 

Melissa Fleming 33:40

So she is going to have an interesting life. Already has.

 

Mohamed Yahya 33:44

She has a very interesting life. But you know, I'm sure many of our colleagues who work in the UN will identify with this. At that young age it's fine, but there's always this sense that we always have to move after a certain period of time. And she's... Breaking away from her friends and unpredictability and all those things can be very challenging. But we hope that she's still a bit young to not be too affected by the movement.

 

Melissa Fleming 34:14

You're going to Pakistan now?

 

Mohamed Yahya 34:16

Yes.

 

Melissa Fleming 34:16

And you're changing roles. Also, you were, you know, working in development for, as we mentioned, for the UN Development Programme. And you're going to now take up the function of being the Resident Coordinator in Pakistan. What does that job entail?

 

 

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 34:31

I'm really excited about this new job. It's very different. It gives you an opportunity to see a broader perspective. As a UNDP head, I was the development head of the UN system. Now, I am tasked to work across the entire UN presence in Pakistan and be the Humanitarian Coordinator to support Pakistan's development ambition, its acceleration to meet the SDGs, but also its ability to deal with climate induced crises such as floodings and other forms of climate related impacts. So exciting times. So I'm looking forward to that. And the UN has a huge presence in Pakistan. So...

 

Melissa Fleming 35:21

Yeah. What keeps you awake at night?

 

Mohamed Yahya 35:25

Well, I'm telling you, like the rest of the world right now, we're all awake because there's so many multiple crises that the world is facing. And I don't think we've had this kind of coming together of several crises, be it the climate crisis. I have a seven-year-old. Will the world be the same for her when she's at my age? Violence all over the world. Conflicts in Europe. Conflicts in Africa. Conflicts in Middle East. How can that be managed or reduced? How can we remind governments about what they have signed up to - the international law and international order? So all those things are concerning. But as I said, we are the UN in the business of hope and selling hope and selling that tomorrow the world will be better than it is today. Yes, many things concern me, including climate risk. But I also think we signed up to this job to work for the UN, to do what we do so that we can help the world. So it can be a better place for everybody, including my own daughter.

 

Melissa Fleming 36:44

And when you think about your daughter, you mentioned that. And when she is your age. What would you hope that that world would look like for her?

 

Mohamed Yahya 36:54

I hope it will be a world that hasn't been destroyed by my generation or the previous generation through our actions today. Through intolerance or climate emissions. But also a world that is better for girls and boys alike, especially for her. She's a mixed-race child. She's a girl, and I want her to like everybody else achieve her a potential and not in any way affected or discriminated because she's a girl or anything else.

 

Melissa Fleming 37:41

Well, we all have a lot of work to do to work towards that goal. And so Mo, thank you so much for joining us in Awake at Night. Good luck in Pakistan.

 

 

Mohamed Yahya 37:52

Thank you very much, Melissa, for having me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

 

Melissa Fleming 37:58

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. Do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people find the show.

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell, to Adam Paylor, Josie Le Blond, and my colleagues at the UN: Katerina Kitidi, Roberta Politi, Geneva Damayanti, Tulin Battikhi, Bissera Kostova, Anzhelika Devis, Carlos Macias and the team at the UN studio. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier. Additional music was by Pascal Wyse.