¹ú²úAV

 

 

Melissa Fleming 00:00

The scars of the conflict in South Sudan run deep. My colleague Sarah has seen the suffering firsthand.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 00:08

This woman stood before we left and she said, ¡®I want to say something.¡¯ She said, ¡®We have nightmares.¡¯ And I was struck. She said, ¡®We have nightmares. We can't sleep at night. We're scared.¡¯ And she talked about losing her four children. And she said it without crying. And my heart was crying while she was speaking. And it just¡­ I couldn't bear it.

 

 

 

 

Melissa Fleming 00:42

Sara Beysolow Nyanti lived through war in her home country of Liberia. These days, she's been telling me about her experiences as the Deputy Special Representative in South Sudan. It's a compelling, inspiring account. From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. Welcome to Awake at Night.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 01:12

I think for me the most vivid I have in my mind right now is my trip to Canal Piji and getting there. So, we went by boat first. Then you transfer to a canoe to get closer to the area. But we went by boat. And to get to Canal Piji, and to find out the major issue they faced was having access to anti-venom. Because the people in Canal Piji, because of the flooding, they were and still are competing with snakes for the dry ground. That, for me, was just a shock. And I talked to families. I met people who said they slept outside their houses nights before we got there, because snakes were in the house seeking dry ground and they couldn't stay inside the house. People dying from snake bites, and we didn't have sufficient anti-venom in that remote area to address their number one need. That was something that I wasn't prepared for. And even looking at the different pictures of the different snakes, you cannot imagine¡­ Even the boat that took us there, they have to search those boats before they take off because from that water, you know, they get those snakes all the time. And I saw over maybe 100 pictures of different types of snakes. It was just for me mind-boggling that people would have to confront that just for their daily needs. Whether it's to go and get food or what have you, they're competing with snakes. It's not one snake. It's so many snakes, you know, in every pathway, and including in their houses. And it's not one, you know, remote incident. It's something that people are living with every day.

 

Melissa Fleming 03:00

And this is something new as a result of flooding, as a result of climate change.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 03:06

Definitely for sure as a result of climate change, as a result of flooding. And something new in terms of how we even programme. We had not realized - when we're talking about, you know, ensuring access to services and so forth, when we were having those conversations there, when we were talking about the issue of ensuring, you know, basic obstetric care, making sure women can have safe delivery, access to facilities and so forth - I was not thinking anti-venom.

 

Melissa Fleming 03:32

And how did you feel? I mean, I think there are very few people who are not terrified of snakes. How about you personally?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 03:41

So, any creepy crawly thing, I'm scared of it. So, imagine, in fact, when the navy were telling me about the snakes in the boat, I started jumping, looking under my legs. And when those families were telling me about having to sleep outside, I mean, I'd look at the faces of the children, you know. I looked at those young children who would have to come outside in that moist, damp area, right? In order for them to try and find a place that they can lie. But then think about it. They're outside, they're exposed to more snakes. So, being outside doesn't make them safe. Being outside makes them even more vulnerable. So, whether inside or outside, they're vulnerable. And these are the situations that the people of South Sudan face in so many different ways. The binary choices are no choice.

 

Melissa Fleming 04:28

I'm just wondering. You travelled to other parts of South Sudan and maybe there's another story of something you saw that was representative of the problems that the South Sudanese are facing.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 04:43

I travelled to Adidiyang. And this is after the fighting that happened last year that had many people fleeing the fighting that happened in Unity State. And people were fleeing gunshots and they were confronting floods. And I met a woman who lost all her children. Fleeing with her children from the from the fighting, from the violence, she lost all her children in the flood. And all I could think about was my children and my three baby grandchildren. I have three baby grandchildren. And this woman was seated on the ground, and she didn't even lift her head to speak the whole while we were there. And she and other women was seated on the ground, and I sat on the ground with them. And she had her index finger on her right hand in the sand, in the dirt, and she was just drawing something. We were talking, and she never lifted her head once. And it took everything in me, everything in me not to break down there in front of them. And she continued in that posture with her head down, just writing in the sand. And then afterwards, when we're getting ready to leave, we shared our concerns for them. We shared our desire to help them. We talked about practical solutions. And we were really happy that we were able to provide services within a week. We had¡­. We were distributing food, non-food items in a place that was very hard to reach. I mean, very remote. Humanitarians were there delivering the services. We had, you know, children who were separated from their parents who were being served by agencies, by UNICEF and others, UNHCR. So, we had a lot of services already on the ground. And we were just letting them know what they should expect from those services and letting them know what we would continue to provide and what else we needed to provide that wasn't be provided yet.

And this woman stood before we left, and she said, ¡®I want to say something.¡¯ She said, ¡®We have nightmares.¡¯ And I was shocked. She said, ¡®We have nightmares. We can¡¯t sleep at night.¡¯ And the issue of mental health rang so loudly. She didn't call it mental health. But she said, ¡®We're scared.¡¯ And she talked about losing her four children. And she said it without crying. And my heart was crying while she was speaking. And it just¡­ I couldn't bear it. And imagine how many of her I didn't get to speak with. And just imagine how many women lost their children, their grandchildren, their entire families, fleeing one shock, confronting another, and not knowing what the next day will bring. That's why peace is so necessary. That's why peace is non-negotiable. Even though we negotiate peace, but it's necessary and it's a must. And for South Sudan, it is peace upfront, human rights upfront. We have to put the rights of people and the peace that they deserve upfront. And it's just so painful. And in the same South Sudan, you have people who still yet don't know that South Sudan is a different country from Sudan. You have people who still yet don't know where they should be accessing their rights to identity. We have so much work to do in South Sudan. But I believe we're well placed to do it.

 

Melissa Fleming 08:41

South Sudan needs governance and peace, as you said, and even humanitarians are coming under attack.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 08:50

It is still yet the worst place again to be a humanitarian. Last year was the worst. We had nine deaths. Already within January we had seven. The attacks on humanitarians, the violent incidents still yet the most. And this is because we recognize the fact that the social contract that should exist in South Sudan does not exist. There is no social contract between the government and its people. And many of the people look to humanitarians to solve the problems. South Sudanese have been fighting for so long. And during this process, the UN has been there all the way from the beginning until now. The people of South Sudan know the UN to be their rescue. Now the challenge you have with the current global context, with dwindling resources, increasing needs, and the fact that we have to reduce humanitarian assistance in many places, and we have to prioritize. The response to that often is attacks because communities don't understand why would the UN not give us what we used to receive before. Why would the UN not give cash here and you know, and give only food here? And so, they look to the UN to provide jobs, to provide vehicles, to provide housing, to provide development, and not looking first to their government. And the messaging we continue to pass on to the people of South Sudan is that we are here to support the government and people of South Sudan. We are not the primary duty bearer. We're here to support. And I think that messaging being reinforced is very important.

 

Melissa Fleming 10:25

Have you ever come under attack yourself or been afraid for your own safety?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 10:31

Everywhere we serve, we have different degrees of risks and vulnerability. South Sudan is no exception. I have been blessed not to be, you know, under attack by a community so far. But I have colleagues who have. It's a very risky and vulnerable situation. But at the end of the day, we serve. We serve primarily, and it's a joy to serve. There's nothing like serving humanity. And so that comes first and foremost.

 

Melissa Fleming 10:58

When you think about South Sudan, what's keeping you awake at night?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 11:04

Right now, what keeps me awake at night is the fact that we are not hitting the mark with the benchmarks towards, you know, elections. We are behind. Although efforts are being made, we're still behind. And there cannot be another extension. Besides the fact that the international community will not look at another extension favourably and will not support it, the people of South Sudan don't need another extension. What they need is actualization of their rights. They need basic social services. They need a government that they choose to serve them in a way that they deserve. That can't be extended. They need it yesterday. They deserved it yesterday. It¡¯s overdue. And for me, that is the most critical thing. It has to happen for them.

 

 

 

 

 

Melissa Fleming 12:00

You mentioned that the world is facing so many crises and that is deflecting attention away from South Sudan. It's shifting funding support away from South Sudan, and now we have conflict in Sudan. Possibly we could see refugees even fleeing into South Sudan. Are you hopeful that this will give the government the impetus to go forward with elections and to start providing the services that the people need?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 12:37

First of all, I think I should acknowledge and thank the Government of South Sudan for the effort it has made with the Sudanese crisis. The efforts by President Kiir have been, you know, laudable. We also have been dealing with, you know, refugees coming into South Sudan from the humanitarian side. So, I think for me, I think it's important that we acknowledge¡­ Because sometimes we only talk about what's not working. We should acknowledge here what has been done by the Government of South Sudan to facilitate access. And they have reached out to all the missions in South Sudan to say, ¡®Your counterparts in Sudan can evacuate here.¡¯

Having said that, I think it also should be an alarm bell for South Sudan to say, ¡®You can't afford for this to happen. You can't have a repeat of 2016. It just can't happen again.¡¯ So whatever needs to happen for peace to reign, it needs to happen. There will be no lasting peace in South Sudan, if the household level don't understand that there is supposed to be peace. If at the community level and the household level, the neighbours in that same community don't know that their leaders have signed an agreement for peace and they don't understand what that means for them, there will be no peace. You will still have the kidnapping of the neighbour's children. You will still have the issues of, you know, violence against communities for having violence against each other in relation to cattle, cattle movement, and so forth. There needs to be a translation of the peace agreement at the level of peace does matter. The level of the person, the individual, the community, at the household.

 

Melissa Fleming 14:15

You've spent a lot of time speaking to girls. And when you see these young girls, what comes to your mind? What do you want for their future?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 14:26

So, the issue of sexual violence, conflict-related sexual violence, the issue of gender-based violence. Just the vulnerability of the girl child in South Sudan is so painful. And talking to a young girl who told me that every day that she decides to go to the town to go to school, she takes a risk, and she knows that there's a chance she could be raped. Or talking to another woman. In fact, a group of women in an IDP camp where they share that when they go for firewood the chances are high that they would be raped. And then getting feedback. I didn't hear this directly, but getting feedback from another focus group discussion, where a man was confronted with this, ¡®Do you know that your daughters and your wives are confronted with rape when they go to access their rights?¡¯ The man said, ¡®It is better that they are raped than for me to be killed.¡¯

When I triangulate all of that, the only word that comes to my mind is injustice. It¡¯s unjust. For a young girl, all she wants is just to go to school and have the opportunity to be wherever she wants to be. It's unjust for her to have to choose, again, the issue of binary choices that are no and no. You know, how can I sit there as a leader with responsibilities in terms of decision making on resources. How can I not have sleepless nights when you have to choose between whether you fund the services for gender-based violence, or whether you fund the services for feeding. Because for some children, it's only that one meal in school that they have all day. So, when I take it back to the conversation around access to resources, to global aid infrastructure, and how aid is playing out now in the wake of the Russia-Ukraine scenario, it's unjust. It's unjust. At least the commitments made to meet the needs of these young girls and these people, the most vulnerable. Those commitments made should be met. I can understand if the commitments were not made, but the commitments made should be met.

 

 

 

 

Melissa Fleming 17:01

Sara, you're no stranger to countries in crisis. Before you arrived in South Sudan you served in Nepal. And then before that in Yemen, where you worked for UNICEF, the UN's Children's Fund. Were you prepared for the amount of suffering and poverty that you would see when you travelled through Yemen?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 17:25

No. But I can tell you honestly and objectively, Yemen didn't prepare me for South Sudan. Three years in Yemen did not prepare me for what I saw in South Sudan.

 

Melissa Fleming 17:41

And why is that?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 17:43

Because the degree to which people are suffering in South Sudan is different. I saw people living in straw, places that were already flooded. I saw people who were sleeping on bare ground in Abyei, who had been there for four months without anything, because we could not reach them with services. The degree to which I saw suffering in South Sudan, I didn't see it in Yemen, although I saw a lot of suffering in Yemen. I'm saying it to say, honestly, the suffering that people are enduring around the world is so unfair, is so unjust. And everything we are doing¡­ And that's why I always say, the UN, we have to always make sure we get it right. Because if we don't get it right, people will suffer. And that's why I'm so proud to have had the opportunity to serve in the capacity I¡¯ve served. And looking at the UN reform and all that's happening with the RC [Resident Coordinator] system and so forth. I'm so proud to be a part of that. Because all that's about - is doing more with less and trying to streamline in a way that ensures that we work together as one system to deliver results for the people we serve. And I'm really grateful for this opportunity.

 

 

 

 

Melissa Fleming 18:56

It must be also a very stressful job. I wonder what sustains you.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 19:01

My faith, my belief in humanity. I truly believe in it. I believe in what we're working for. I believe in what we stand for. I really do believe in it. I really do believe we are that neutral broker that can facilitate, can catalyze, can convene, and ensure that we bring people together around how the good of what exists in each and every one of us can be mobilized to have transformative gains in the countries that we serve.

 

Melissa Fleming 19:34

I know you devote so much time and energy and thinking to your job. I wonder what your family thinks about what you do.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 19:48

I don't think my family fully understands what I do. But they're very proud. They're very, very proud. My mother doesn't like for me to say it, but I come from a house where there was no bathroom in the house, where we had what you call chamber buckets. You used the chamber bucket and took it outside. That's where I come from, that house. When I say that's where I come from, that's the house I was born in. That's the house that my first seven years were spent there, no running water. And for me to have the opportunity to serve humanity as I have, I'm grateful. Also, I'm from that country that had decades of conflict. And the UN, ECOWAS¡­ First the ECOWAS, and then the UN stepped in. And because of the international community, today Liberia is enjoying some form of peace. How can you not give back? How can you not?

 

Melissa Fleming 20:58

I understand your mother worked multiple jobs to support you and your siblings so that you could go to school. How did she inspire you?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 21:08

My mother is considered a disciplinarian. My mother worked extremely hard. We honoured her not too long ago and I shared the fact that she was always making ends meet. I remember my mother selling cassava and shortbread and cornbread and gravy, working, and then taking food to work with her to sell. And I would help her to prepare it in the morning before going to school so she would take it to work with her to sell. My mother has made everything from fried chili peppers to whatever you can think about. Selling on the weekends and so forth just to have an additional source of income. Her mother was a single mom who never went to school who had her husband die at such a young age. And she cooked huge pots at the mission school to send her children to school.

So, coming from that stock of strong women, the strength is somewhere there inside of you. And you learn it. You see it. It becomes a part of you, and you know that there's no other option. You have to persevere because those before you persevered. You have to. But not only that. Those after you should not have it as difficult as those before you did. And we owe it to the girls that are coming after us, to the children coming after us, to make the world a better place for them. They shouldn't have to come and suffer the same things that those before them did. And that's why we work. And that's why we do it. To make the world a better place.

 

Melissa Fleming 22:48

Do you have children yourself?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 22:50

I do. I have children and I have three small grandchildren. And who I love out of this world. And I wondered how was life before they came. But we work to make the world a better place. And the world is in such a shabby condition. So that means all of us have to work harder and continue to try.

 

Melissa Fleming 23:13

When you think back to your childhood, did you ever think that you would be doing what you're doing now?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 23:20

I remember the only thing I knew about the UN was French and English. Because I went to C?te d¡¯Ivoire. When I graduated from high school, my mother gave me a trip to C?te d¡¯Ivoire to my aunt. And people spoke French. I just thought it was so sexy this language. I loved to hear them speak in the French. It was so beautiful. I said, ¡®Oh my gosh.¡¯ And I would watch the news. I would see people translating. I said, ¡®I have to work for the UN and translate from French to English.¡¯ And I never thought, I never knew what the UN really did. I just knew about translation. I just knew about languages until I got older. But I never ever thought that I could ever be a UNICEF representative, let alone be a Resident Coordinator. Because my view early on was that those positions were held for people who are part of some systems and groups, and you know. I just never imagined that I could reach there. People say it's not possible, but I can tell you it is. And people say, ¡®Well, but where did she come from?¡¯ They have no idea. This was not without scars.

 

Melissa Fleming 24:28

It's very inspiring, your story. I wonder what the men in your life think about you. You're such a strong woman. I mean, maybe starting with your father and then your husband.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 24:40

My father passed away in 2016. And I remember I had been appointed UNICEF representative and he was talking to me, 2016, January, that he was telling me what he wanted me to do if he passed away. And I was crying and telling him, ¡®Daddy, there's so much more I have to do.¡¯ And he said, ¡®There's nothing more that you can do that would make me any prouder.¡¯ He said, ¡®You're an enigma, you defy the law of womanhood.¡¯ He said it many times. He loved me, believed in me, and always made me feel special. And my husband has been a huge support. If Stephen wasn't with the kids, helping them with school and doing the things that a lot of men wouldn't do, I wouldn't probably be here today. He enabled me to be able to do it. Strong pillar. So, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for my sons as well, who always told me, ¡®Mommy, you're the best thing ever. Mommy, we're so proud of you.¡¯ I'm grateful for the men in my life. My brothers. I have two brothers, who love me and support me, who think I can just do anything. And I'm grateful for the men in my life who have supported me. They really have supported me. I'm grateful.

 

 

 

 

Melissa Fleming 26:00

I just wanted to just go back briefly to Liberia, because your country, as you mentioned, went through its own terrible war. I wonder if you experienced yourself personally any of that period and what your memories of it are, and how that maybe has affected you and inspired your drive to create peace.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 26:25

I remember I was at school when we were being called to go home because of the rice riot in 1979. I couldn't get home. And I had to go to the home of a classmate. Didn't even know if my parents knew them. Didn't know whether or not they even had any knowledge of where I would be. I just ended up at their house. And through connections, and so forth and so on when things calmed down, they got me home. They ended up finding my mom and got me home. I remember the coup of 1980. And I remember the assassination of the 13 men. After they killed the president, the 13 men they assassinated on the beach, the members of government. I remember friends in school whose fathers, whose relatives had been killed. I remember so many things.

The last I remember is the last set of wars. We call them World War One, World War Two and World War Three in Liberia. Between 2002 and 2003. And I remember being in a house. We had money and money meant nothing. We couldn't buy anything. We have money in our pocketbooks. We couldn't find food. We were 72 in a house that had a hardtop. Because if you were not in a hardtop, chances are the mortar shell would drop on your house and you would die. So, we were 72 one night. And you would have to be knee to chest for the other person's legs to stretch out. And my husband and I were there. I would stretch my legs. He would put his legs up and vice versa. We went through that the whole night. And the next morning, there was a house next to us that was hit by a mortar shell. And you just hear this sound, ¡®Psst¡­¡¯ And the roof of the house would be garnished like a carrot. I got up and I went, I ran outside. My husband was calling me back. I ran. I couldn't take it any longer. I ran and a bullet passed by my ear. And I ran to that house. And I picked up some mortar shells. I kept them in my bag for about five years. I said I never wanted to forget.

Now, I share those pieces with you to say, ¡®I'm a Liberian woman.¡¯ So, working in South Sudan, for me it's like working in Liberia. That's how I've approached it. And when you've experienced those things, you don't see this thing as a job every day. You see it as a rescue mission. You see it as building and fixing systems so that people would not have to hear those kinds of, those mortar shells and hear those bullets passing by their ear. You work at this to make sure that you give your quota. And having seen what I've seen, I don't want any nation to experience what we experienced. I don't want any nation to experience it anymore. What the people of Ukraine are going through, for me it's not about the geopolitics of anything. It's about human life and the dignity of life and the respect for life and how we approach life and value life. Every life matters, and how we approach it matters.

 

Melissa Fleming 30:09

Since 2019, you have been the highest-ranking Liberian in the UN. What does that mean to you, especially as a woman?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 30:18

Pressure. Pressure is one, but then also responsibility is two. To serve as an example to every Liberian girl, that they can be anything they want to be even what they don't even imagine. They can do anything above what they even imagine. And also, it's important for me to demonstrate results with the responsibilities I've been given. To show that it's not just about a title. It's not just about a function. It's about results. And I'm glad to see with the teams I've worked with, I've been able to demonstrate results. And that's important.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:00

I think finally, what do you want for women of this generation, next generation? What needs to change?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 31:10

We need women leaders all around the world. I wonder if we had two women leaders in Sudan, would there be fighting today? I wonder if the decisions would have been the same. We need more women leaders around the world. We need more compassion and passion. We need more understanding and tolerance. And women bring that to the table. And so, for the young women of today, I want them to aspire to be the leaders of their generation.

 

Melissa Fleming 31:35

And what gives you hope?

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 31:37

Humanity gives me hope. The love of God gives me hope, but humanity gives me even more hope in terms of what God can do through us and in us and I believe in the good of us. I believe in the good that's placed in each and every one of us. Irrespective of faith, irrespective of belief systems, irrespective of views and ideologies, all of us have a degree of good and if we accentuate the good, it will overcome the bad. And good will always overcome that, I believe.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:09

Sara, thank you so much.

 

Sara Beysolow Nyanti 32:12

Thank you, Melissa.

 

Melissa Fleming 32:16

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. On Twitter, we¡¯re and I'm . Do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people find the show.

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell, to Jen Thomas, Adam Paylor, to my colleagues at the UN: Roberta Politi, Julia Hagel, Geneva Damayanti, Tulin Battikhi and Bissera Kostova. And the team at the UN studio. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier. Additional music was by Pascal Wyse.