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Ahead of World Toilet Day (19 November), the UN Chronicle spoke with Jack Sim, Founder and Director of the World Toilet Organization. Mr. Sim, popularly known as "Mr. Toilet", who discussed the important role of toilets and sanitation in achieving sustainable development; his work to improve sanitation systems throughout the world; and progress towards the goal of ensuring that everyone everywhere has access to a functioning toilet whenever needed.?

Today, 45?per cent of the world¡¯s population¡ª¡ªhave no access to safe toilets. Why is the lack of toilets and basic sanitation such a big problem?

For a very long time, sanitation and hygiene have been part of the cleaner-sounding ¡°water agenda¡±, and when they hide the topic underwater, it literally goes underwater, which means nothing gets done. So, I asked people working in the development sector, ¡°Why is it that you don't just say it?¡± No one wants to talk about sanitation and toilets. Nobody wants to donate to a subject that is brown in colour; people prefer to talk about blue and green issues, such as climate change and forests and water and children and fish and animals.

There are still very few people who are willing to focus on sanitation in the simplest language. Some call it ¡°fecal sludge management¡±, which is hard for ordinary folks to understand. I think we have to call it what it is. We have to make going to the toilet a normal, natural thing, just like eating and drinking. We are in a state of denial, and that is why problems continue to exist.

The international community is now looking at the issue of sanitation differently because it's formally part of the development agenda: Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) 6 is about providing clean water and sanitation to all.?

In your experience, which regions do you think are most affected by the lack of toilets and sanitation? ?

It is the global South: India and countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America, even the Pacific Islands. I feel that COVID-19 has heightened peoples¡¯ consciousness and awareness of the importance of hygiene. Unhygienic conditions can kill you even if you are a very rich person.

I hope that this habit of washing hands and keeping clean continues after COVID-19. In 2003 we had SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) in Asia and everybody was so conscious about cleanliness and hygiene. But a year passed, and SARS went away and many went back to not washing their hands. I think that people have to be reminded that hygiene and sanitation save lives.

The is not just for the people who don't have access to toilets. It's also about water treatment, because after you flush, where does it go? For example, in Brazil, 50 per cent of all fecal waste was not being treated. So, in 2019, we held the World Toilet Summit in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and we lobbied the Senate to launch a bill to allow private-public partnerships to develop their wastewater treatment plants. With the new law, over the last three years, $10 billion out of a total of $135 billion in foreign investment has now been spent on wastewater treatment in Brazil. As a result of the change in the law, 94 per cent of the wastewater treatment plants in Brazil are now owned by the State. We hope many other countries will follow this example.

This year, the World Toilet Summit is being held in Nigeria. The President of Nigeria is opening it and the Minister of Water Resources there is a champion for sanitation. We hope to leave behind a legacy for change, that they [the Government in Nigeria] attend to the sanitation crisis. Nigeria is really serious about having a clean country. This follows the Clean India campaign led by Prime Minister Modi, and India has now built 110 million toilets.

You were a successful businessman in your mid-twenties. How did you first become aware of the problem of the lack of toilets and decide to do something about it?

By the age of 40 I had made some money and I had 16 companies. I didn't go to university because I was not good academically. That decision saved me many years, which allowed me to start businesses early in life.

Turning 40 was like half-time. I started to reflect on my life. I said, ¡°Jack, you can be the richest man on your street. What's the point of trying to make more money when you have only 40 more years to go before you¡¯re 80?¡±

So I think the number 40 made me wake up to realize that there may be no limit in making money but there is a limit on your lifespan. I eventually decided to use my time for service, because service is the highest value exchange for time.

I wanted to work on something that nobody wanted to fund, and decided to focus on toilets, because if everybody needs one, then it must be a good thing. But when that thing is ugly or it's a unglamourous agenda item, then no one wants to deal with it and it¡¯s neglected. So I saw an opportunity and took it.

The next question was, should I talk about toilets and sanitation in polite language? It's considered a rude subject and it¡¯s very hard for people to take in, so I made it humorous. I used a kind of guerilla marketing strategy, calling the World Toilet Organization ¡°the WTO¡±. Sounds like we¡¯re the World Trade Organization!

And now you're known as ¡°Mr. Toilet¡±.

Yes, the media started to call me ¡°Mr. Toilet¡± and it stuck. Everybody started calling me Mr. Toilet!

I learned that if you can make people laugh, they will listen to you, and you can give them the facts about sanitation and hygiene. I like to make people laugh, so this way of communicating suits me very well and it has suited the sanitation agenda well, too.

The World Toilet Organization serves as the global voice for sanitation and we work hard to maintain its visibility, because agendas, such as those on COVID-19, climate change, cancer and tuberculosis, all compete with one another.

And if we don¡¯t continue to provide information about the sanitation crisis, the topic could disappear from the global agenda.

We have been able to keep the subject alive thanks to United Nations General Assembly , by which 193 countries adopted 19 November¡ªour founding date¡ªas . This has strengthened the legitimacy of the sanitation agenda.

We work with policymakers at the national level, because providing toilets one at a time is never going to address the problem at scale. Changing government policy moves things quickly.?

We provide outreach to an audience of between 2.5 and 3 billion people on a very limited budget. We don't have a lot of money but we are able to reach so many people.

I really feel privileged that I have had the opportunity to work on this for the last 21 years without a salary. I'll always be here, but I also have to find the next generation to take over. I need to convert our organization into a strong institution because people¡¯s lives are at stake.

So, you're looking for the next Mr. or Ms. Toilet to carry on the work.

Not just one person; it has to be a lot of people. We cannot just have a single point of failure anymore. We have lots of volunteers around the world, but we need to transform our organization into an institution.

Is there a central objective for the World Toilet Organization? Is there a quantifiable goal that you're trying to reach?

The goal is that one day, in the near future, everybody everywhere will have access to a clean, safe toilet and properly managed sanitation, with access anytime they need it. It seems simple, that one day going to the toilet will be a given, but today it¡¯s a lot of work.

What is the World Toilet Organization doing on the ground locally in the global South?

We work with policymakers at the national level, because providing toilets one at a time is never going to address the problem at scale. Changing government policy moves things quickly. We are seeing massive improvement in China and India. We are moving on to Indonesia, Viet Nam, to countries in Africa and Latin America. I have travelled to 61 countries so far¡ªall to see toilets!

Is reaching the goal of sanitation for all also a question of funding? You talked about the importance of national policy, but there must be a funding aspect.

Funding helps because we have to pay salaries. We actually don't employ a lot of people; we have a lot of volunteers but they need coordination.

Funding also helps establish standards. We're collecting all the sanitation standards around the world and compiling them into a central repository of information so that it¡¯s easy for a researcher or policymaker to use those standards as a basis for study or policy.

The theme for this year's World Toilet Day is ¡°making the invisible visible¡±. World Water Day had a similar message. Can you explain what this means, both in general and how you see it?

I think this is exactly what we have been talking about during this interview. When people refuse to engage in the subject of toilets and sanitation, the problem becomes invisible. Our job is to put it on centre stage.

Ask people to think and reflect about what their life would be like without access to a toilet, and then tell them that billions of people are suffering without one. Then the conversation begins.

There's also the idea of groundwater being or seeming to be invisible. People are not thinking that their toilet has an effect on the quality of drinking water in wells, or ground water, or water for irrigation.

Yes.

It ties in well with the way other people might be thinking about?that invisibility, because you're talking about awareness. Sanitation is a subject that people don't want to discuss in public?and is therefore hidden. You¡¯re saying, ¡°Let's bring this to the surface and talk about it¡±. That's the way things get done.

When we don't talk about it, we flush and forget. So this problem is invisible, but the moment you speak about it, it becomes visible, and when it's visible, then the senator says, ¡°Wow. Got to do something about it. We agree. We'll launch a bill.¡± As I mentioned earlier, in Brazil they passed a bill. It took seven months to become law. I'm so happy to have been part of this new sanitation law.

When people refuse to engage in the subject of toilets and sanitation, the problem becomes invisible. Our job is to put it on centre stage.

Yes, that¡¯s great. As we mentioned, SDG 6 deals with clean water and sanitation. What other Goals do you think are impacted by your work on sanitation?

Many, but the Goal on health [SDG 3 on health and well-being] is an important one, because if you or your child is sick one day, you could miss work and lose the income for that day. That contributes to poverty, which is dealt with in another Goal [SDG 1 on the eradication of poverty]. Having safe toilets is also important to women [SDG 5 on gender equality].

Sanitation also affects life under water [SDG 14]. Without pollution, fish will be healthier.

And that¡¯s about food security as well [SDG 2: zero hunger].

Yes, food, too, but if you can't even start talking about the toilet and sanitation problem, you¡¯re never going to improve it. So, I'm glad that people are paying attention, and World Toilet Day is the time when we should have conversations about it.

Final question: Do you think the United Nations will reach its goal on sanitation by 2030?

I think it¡¯s a very slow process. COVID-19 made it even worse, and the poor are really suffering even more from the pandemic. But I think even without COVID, they were going to have a hard time meeting the SDG on sanitation. The sad thing about the 2030 Agenda right now is that it is slowly running out of steam. We are more interested in spending money on the war in Ukraine.

So there are those two factors that you mentioned: COVID-19 and the war in Ukraine. They have really distracted people from achieving the Sustainable Development Goals.

We also have to be balanced. For example, while climate change is very important, it cannot be the only agenda item. There are other urgent issues such as homelessness, hunger, water and sanitation, education and land rights. We need to give equal attention to all the SDGs.

Jack Sim, thank you very much for your time. We wish you continued success with your important work.

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